Re(3): pancama vEdam - ravi gAncanidi kavi gAncunu, May be not...

Ramabhadra Dokka (
Thu, 31 Oct 1996 11:19:37 -0500 (EST)

I wish this is last of my posts on this subject before the unanswered
issues about the poem are diluted into remarks branding the opinions as
'frivolous' and otherwise...:-)

Nasy gAru said :

> Coming to the recent remarks from Ram and mAdhava, I guess it is they who
> missed the point, not the poet. The poem is not about what is written in..

You MAY BE right Nasy. Please refer to my previous posts, I said what I 
thought the poem was talking about. I never questioned the subject of the 
poem and I do not see if anyone missed any point on this point.:-) 

The objections were raised after analyzing a literary professor's evaluation 
and a certification that was issued and another's inference from the insight 
of finding new TRUTH in the OLD epics.

> As regards to the facts of Ekalavya's story as told by vyAsa, I frankly
> think the poet gives a damn, and neither do I as a reader..

Good for you if you don't care, but I have to disagree with you when you
said that the poet doesn't even care for facts, in a poem for which some 
claims of "TRANSFORMATION or SYMBOLIC REPRESENTATION" have been made so loud.

One obviously questions how far that is TRUE ?? You may say, that this is
again about the claims on the poem and NOT the poem itself and I guess you
are right now... I too started NOT caring a damn for these claims...:-)

Kamala wrote :

> Can someone explain to me why we are having problems understanding or 
> taking the poem at its face value

If we do that kamala, what about the tags that are associated with/awarded 
to it like TRANSFORMATION OF EPIC SYMBOLS....etc...:-)

The point that you have read many Hindi poems with such symbolic 
representations, doesn't answer the question if it was done RIGHT 
in this piece or in any of those poems. I must admit that my Hindi
skills may be much poorer than what you think your telugu skills are.
So, I think we agree upon the point that several people see different 
things from different view points for various reasons.  

> Or is it a larger issue at stake ??

No nothing larger than -- some one felt it was a great piece and others felt 
that it may not be true and pointed out why they think so. That's all.. -- 

I refrain from commenting on how much political issue was involved
in writing this poem and some other view points raised by SrIkanth and 
mAdhava in that direction. I do not know much about political correctness
and all I am talking about is poetic justification, literally.

May peace be bestowed upon everyone.

Dr. Jampala had a problem UNDERSTANDING the word "SWAY" --

I may not be good at English but here is what I found in my copy of 
websters - 

SWAY vb - 1. to swing gently from side to side 2. Rule, Govern 3. to cause
to swing from side to side 4. Bend, swerve see Also. influence, oscillate, 
fluctuate, vibrate, waver. I thought I was referring to the very first 
meaning that is indicated but I am NOT real sure if I am SWAYING or STRAYing  
in either direction. Anyway, I thought that this was far from the point
of discussion but I am glad as long as it helps somebody UNDERSTAND what
I am saying.

and SrI vElUri while posting some thing for the continuing debate and while 
commenting about the post-mortem of the previous poem, PARA-PHRASED -- 

> some more of his poems need to be read and analyzed TO ACCEPT HIM AS A POET

I thought my post said that we need more of his works to assert the SINCERITY
and the COMMITMENT from the POET and NOT for ACCEPTING him as POET OR to grade 
him and let him join the school of graduate POETS or something like that.. 
After all, everyone has to be one's own judge especially in matters of POETRY 
and other writing skills. One may write with a motive but whether the readers 
accept it or not definitely depends upon how far the TRUTH is stretched or how 
much of the FACTS are represented SYMBOLICALLY either after TRANSFORMATION or 
Some other POETess wrote in her poems some time back some thing like this --
How would vyAsa understand the feeling of what might have gone in draupadi's
mind in the vastrApaharaNa ghaTTam and she finally opined that vyAsa wouldn't
have written that way, had he understood the pain of a woman -- I felt that
was a symbolic representation of COMEDY and one's OWN insight and HOW MUCH
the author knows about what he/she is writing. People like muppALLa ranga
nAyakamma are NOT new to our literature (SrInu had some problems about my
earlier comparisons with Rushdie and Hussain, so let's stick to our own 
mahAnuBAvulu / mahAnuBAvu-rALLu) but, I thought that she had atleast an iota 
of logical insight when she wrote "rAmAyaNa vishavRksham" but the current 
trend seems to be not supporting (even) that anymore..:-)

Wait for people claiming to be the descendants of "kaika" asking for the 
forgotten 4th/5th... or nth wish to be fulfilled and some "mandhara's muni
manavarAlu" asking for a compensation from the govt. for the atrocities that 
her great grand mother faced and for rAma, kRshNa and all other EPIC SYMBOLS 
ARE TRANSFORMED and the creators of such literature are put down for a NEW 
ANALYSIS of their UTLERIOR MOTIVES in writing such things... All said and 
done, Let's not DENOUNCE OUR LITERATURE for our own mis-understandings and 
mis-conceptions and lack of patience and time to verify the facts. After all, 
people see what they would like to see anywhere and everywhere, be it in 
epics, in heritage, in culture, in society or in one's own backyard and 
finally, we come back to the question that NASY asked before -- 
"How much DO I CARE ??"


- Ram (Ramabhadra Dokka from

P.S. : I don't know how much of this message is apt for the CHARTER of 
       SCIT/telusa. I too feel that personal mails would be better, but 
       yathA praSnA : tathA uttarAm and as far as responses to mAdhava's
       message are concerned, they have been forwarded to him....

       "ravi gAncanidi kavigAncunu, 
        tappainA oppainA, tanaku naccincadE ku-kavi gAncunu !!"